Friday, March 26, 2010

Kristallnacht 2010.

Sarah Palin identifies pro-health democrats with sniper cross-hairs over their locations. Republican Tancredo calls for a return to "literacy tests" as a voting requisite because we have a black President. Republican gangs spit on and abuse pro-health democrats in public and throw bricks through their windows: scenes of mob violence that recalls the same "brownshirt" behavior of the gangs of young Republicans who flew down to Dade county in 2000 to intimidate election officials there. Other anti-health Republicans encourage this behavior as " Patriotic." A deafening silence on the part of the RNC to distance themselves from any and all of these inflamatory rabble-rousers. A tacit endorsement by the Republican party of mob rule, violence, racism, hate-mongering and pure invention ( death panels, Obama as muslim, the "reconquista " conspiracy,) in the clear pursuit of the overthrow of a democratically elected administration. Now, before anyone says: " Oh yeah, well the Democrats are guilty of the same thing," show me just ONE example. The anti-health Republicans are quite prepared to take this fight out of congress and into the streets. As we have seen from their rallies and tea parties, they are armed and dangerous and " coming to get you." The other day we, once again, heard the chilling sound of window glass smashed in vicious rage...'kristallnacht" was not so very long ago.
It is time the voices of reason, democracy, America spoke loud and clear: we will NOT tolerate fascism, we will not tolerate treason, we will defend the United States from enemies within and without. These violent and dangerous aggressors must be prosecuted and jailed if our country is to survive.

Remember .... Only Connect!
Charles Shaughnessy

Additional comment from Charlie on 26 March, 2010 18:43

33 comments:

  1. WHO are these people and where do they live, in the affluent states, the mainly black states, the working class states , the redneck states or just in areas where there is general illiteracy? Palin seems to have become a very dangerous woman. However I´m sure there are many Republicans who don´ agree with this violence.Sadly to say those Reps. that could probably have influence don´t raise their voices. I wonder why ??
    Your comparison with the "Kristallnacht" really firghtens me Charlie. Has the US really come this far?
    I have been following the hostillity with which this health Bill has had to cope with and cannot really understand why all this controversy.When I hear over 3000000 US ctizens have no health insurance, wouldn´t this be a chance for these people to get coverage?However I don´t agree that anyone should go to jail because they are not insured. A certain freedom should be allowed.
    On the other hand if compulsary insurance isn´t incured then I daresay it will just those people that are now protesting who won´t insure themselves.
    Also the media I think are "pushing " this issue in a negative way.

    I think probably that many in the US don´t know what the "Kristallnacht" is. Maybe it should be explained , as many Americans only know the words Nazi or Hitler and when they know what it means may think about what they are doing.
    It´s frightning .

    ReplyDelete
  2. Are you talking about the "fringe" group of Americans or the approximately one half of Americans that just want to be heard and not ignored and that have been simply grouped with the fringe?

    Notice I said Americans...not Democrats...not Republicans.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Charlie...your passion is admirable and I understand your concerns here. BUT, part of the "voice of reason" is to make sure you have your facts straight instead of saying things that are pretty much as inflammatory as your enemy. I can guarantee readers here will post "Oh Charlie, I agree(you are so smart,why don't you run for office,etc etc) without doing one iota of research to see the other side of the story.
    As for Sarah Palin, I am horrified by that cross-hairs map. No, I don't think she meant to literally shoot people, but she HAD to know that one of the big issues with these rallies is the signs that say "next time I'll bring my guns" AND that the left is using this to make their opposition look bad and scary. Discrediting your opponent is classic Alinsky behavior. I'm very disappointed in her, and have been for a while.
    Second, Tom Tancredo. He suggested a CIVICS LITERACY TEST, and it has nothing to do with a black president. It is a huge issue, we see people who have zero idea of what's going on, but have an opinion(on both sides). Perhaps that civics literacy exam would help those nuts who are interviewed at the Tea Party rallies who are clueless. Might not be a bad thing.
    Thirdly..."pro-health"?? Please, no one is "anti-health". It's "pro-this law" and "anti-this law". And the people have a right to be angry and express that anger. And it's NOT just Republicans/Tea Partiers who are against it. I'm having dinner tonite with 3 friends..registered Dem Obama voters who are FURIOUS and were the 1st of my friends to join Facebook groups to repeal the bill.
    This is getting long, but these "incidents" are isolated, and many have already been debunked. Violence and threats are NEVER acceptable, but no one spit on the Congressman. Having saliva come out of your mouth when you're speaking is not spitting..if so, you SPIT on Figgie and me at "Sleuth". People who have offices on the 3Oth floor don't get "bricks thrown through windows". Coffins that were left behind after a prayer vigil for aborted babies are not a death threat. The media needs to research and wait, before reporting falsehoods.
    And finally, yes the left has done this too. Here's the anti-Bush rallies in the US. If those exact same signs were made with Obama's image, I can't even fathom your response.
    http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death-threats-against-bush-at-protests-i.html
    And Jim Bunning got bomb threats a few weeks ago, when he held up the unemployment legislation.
    Republicans ARE speaking out against the violence. I heard Scott Brown on GMA just this morning, and have seen others. It just doesn't fit the agenda.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I definitely agree with who said "Americans, not republicans, not democrats." It's so true, by labeling people we're just pointing fingers and blaming people. I wish we didn't have political parties, they're just a waste. I mean not all Republicans are evil, not all Democrats are either. Just because we let these people rule our country doesn't mean EVERY person of that designated party feels that way or is that big of an idiot. I mean I wish that we didn't make this the biggest thing in our lives either, there is much more to life other than politics. I mean I always liked what Mr. Shaughnessy has under his bio, "...but value my right to have an opinion on anything, regardless and absent any party line..." I mean, if people believe this, why do we bash people from other parties if we're all from the same country? It's time we quit blaming people and come up with solutions, not more problems. Personally I couldn't give a care about this health care thing right now, my priority is wanting people to get back to work. Once we recover a bit, then let's focus on other things. But until we UNITE and pull ourselves out of this monstrous hole that we've dug ourselves into we shouldn't be scapegoating (if that isn't a verb it is now) and acting like we did when we were kids. I'm in high school, and I still see the finger pointing and name calling. It's ridiculous, and I just hope that they'll grow out of it someday. Ha, America's future alright.

    What disgusts me though, like I said, I'm a high schooler, and the examples portrayed by our political leaders and role models by finger pointing just leads people like me to want to do the same. And I admit it, I have done the same and I regretted it horribly. My teachers at school fingerpoint at the economy and politics all the time (even though it's suppose to be forbidden in public schooling) but all that's teaching me is to do the same. If we all want to be peaceful someday then we're going to have to understand where our fellow Americans come from and why they feel the way they do about certain issues. Instead of calling them an idiot, we should RESPECT their opinions too. I'm fortunate because I tend to see the good in everything, and I try my very best to understand a situation before I judge. So, I guess what I'm saying to anyone who's reading this, is that you're a role model to people like me, the future in this country, and if you're going to bash the people around you, then who's to say that I'm not going to do it someday too? I mean Mr. Shaughnessy, if you ever read this, you are one of my role models too. You're a successful actor, and I've enjoyed everything that you've been in. You have an influence not just in your acting world, but in reality too. I guess I'm a little disappointed. But we're not all perfect, and I do respect your opinion, because this is a good wakeup call to Americans who have been a little hidden from what actually is going on.

    Before I sign off, I'd really encourage people to pick up a history book of some kind. I'm in an advanced placement history class and if there's one thing that my very bias teacher has been pointing out all year, it's that history does repeat itself. And I'm seeing this from early on with the Hamilton vs Jefferson saga, to the Corrupt Bargain of John Adams, and political machine of the mobs of New York... I mean it's so interesting, and I have recently developed more of my current opinion based on history, and what I think may or may not happen due to the decisions we make. Though, make sure you hear several different opinions. My text book on American history is written by the English, which definitely is not a bad thing, actually I enjoy it (especially during the chapters of the American Revolution), but history is very opinionated too, don't judge on one set of facts.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Yes, Kristallnacht was a vicious event. But there is a distinct difference between what is happening now and what happened in November 1938. These actions are not in response to an assassination, and they are not randomly arresting people of a certain faith and destroying property because of one of them committed the crime. They certainly are not rounding up the Democrats and relocating them into concentration camps (some would be later known as extermination camps), nor are they destroying congressional offices and committing murder. Before you compare what is happening now to Kristallnacht, you should fully understand what happened then--and that it was the beginning of the Final Solution, leading towards the Holocaust. That is definitely not happening now. If you need a refresher, perhaps you should visit the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C. Just because you hear glass breaking does not mean that it's another Kristallnacht; it could just be a recurrence of the Watts riots in 1965 (another instance in which people displayed their displeasure with the current situation by destroying property).

    I'll be the first to admit that the actions that you have described do go a bit overboard. In some ways, it reminds me of perhaps a second American Revolution; all we need are buckets of hot tar and bags of feathers to dump on public officials whose policies (and political views) differ. And, while we're at it, why don't we torch the home of our governor, who is a puppet of the head of government? Oh, wait--now I have wandered off into Massachusetts in the 1760s, when these actions were viewed as acceptable by the "patriots" who became our nation's Founding Fathers. All we now need is a mob throwing rocks, iceballs, manure, etc. at people whose presence we don't like (and then, when one of the soldiers' gun fires and kills "unarmed" men, it becomes a "massacre"). Like it or not, this type of response is part of the American tradition.

    While we haven't truly had a violent revolution in the tradition of the ones in France or Russia (although the Civil War came close), the recent response to the passage of the health care bill (which I strongly suspect prompted this blog) is not atypical (well, it actually might be for Republicans). Democrats (well, technically Democratic-Republicans) rebelled against the federal government in 1794 with the Whiskey Rebellion and in 1799 with Fries Rebellion. I presume that you do not consider physically assaulting and shooting at tax collectors an appropriate way to indicate displeasure with federal law (no matter how much we want to do it on April 15), but that is what happened--and, in the case of the Whiskey Rebellion, it prompted the president to lead troops to suppress the rebellion.
    The same type of response occurred in the 1960s when people rebelled against the Vietnam War (and I seriously doubt that it was Republicans who were disrupting the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968). It's all a matter of perspective--as Ben Franklin said, "Revolution stated in the first person is always legal. It's only revolution in the third person that is called treason."

    And, by the way, perhaps the sound of breaking glass was merely a sign of social unrest, as people are fed up with the government intruding into our daily lives. Just like the "patriots" and "revolutionaries" of the 1760s and 1770s voiced their displeasure and behaved in what we today would call an inappropriate manner, there are folks today who are disgruntled with the government and want change--real change, not what is happening right now. Perhaps America IS speaking loud and clear--this was a bill that does not have the support of the majority of the population (based on all polls that I have seen), and it's a bill with serious flaws that could--and should--have been better.

    ReplyDelete
  6. No, let's get something straight right away. It's no good saying "both sides" are responsible for this thuggery. These are not Democrats spewing this bile and threatening elected officials with bodily harm; these are solely Republicans. It is the party of Reagan, the party that understood the value of de-valuing intellectual rigor, that began this notion that our President should be "one of us" and not someone who aspired to a higher vision and embraced greater intellectual gifts than the average American. That is why there is no serious debate now, just obstruction, threats, bullying and venom. It's like the bully in the schoolyard who, when confronted with an argument he cannot follow, simply punches his opponent in the face. And, yes, this is reminiscent of Kristallnacht. Gangs of "passionate" patriots roamed the streets of Berlin in the name of Nationalism to break the heads or windows of any they saw as threats to the health of their glorious Homeland. That they were Jews, and not Moslems or Mexicans, is because their "Glenn Becks" had put them in the cross-hairs. Yes, this is more frightening a time in this country than I have ever seen. That it is coalescing around an historic attempt to bring health security to millions of Americans, who have been denied, and at a cost of a trillion dollar deficit REDUCTION, according to the BI-LATERAL Congressional Budget Office, speaks only to the selfish and stubborn determination of this Republican core to replace this government, come hell or high water.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I am sorry Charlie, but as much as I adore you, I am afraid you are not "on the ball" so to speak, regarding this matter. This is in no way comparable to Kristallnacht. It is indeed what appears to be the United States heading down a very scary path, however it is not the Republicans doing, it is the Democrats. To force a bill throught that so many people are against, that even Congress and the President will not take for themselves is dispicable. I am extremely disappointed in the undertakings of this administration. Of course ALL AMERICANS should have access to health care, but not in this manner. Instead of creating a new mess, the government should have attemted to regulate big business insurance companies. With all this said...I probably should add that I am a registered Democrat from Massachusetts who voted for Obama. I am clearly going to live to regret that.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Well, Mr. Shaughnessy, wouldn't you then say though that if Republicans are the problem, that we should help show them the solution in a peaceful manner? I mean it's like your bully in the schoolyard analogy, the bigger person in morals is usually the victim. And I'm really not a Democrat or a Republican, I refuse to be associated with either one of them. But it's this mudslinging between the parties that's the true problem. And it exactly is that, the LEADERS of the party is the problem. I mean I've talked to several republican people that have thought that there hasn't been a good leader in quite some time. I mean I assure you it's not just the Democrats that don't like Republican leaders. But what good does it do us to blame them? It's calling the kettle black because we would be stooping to their level. I mean maybe they don't know how to protest in a more peaceful way, but it's because these issues are truly emotional for some people. I mean I doubt most political leaders in the upper levels of the government would understand because they're all rich. We discussed this in my history class, that we've never elected a president that is poor, and we probably never will. I mean I agree that we should have a president that works really hard and is intellectual to a high degree, but also respond to things on a worldly level and on a national level. I think as Americans we should reevaluate what made this country great. It was a bunch of people that decided they didn't like being oppressed, and that if at first you don't succeed try again. And that's what happened, they drew up a government that didn't work, and then they tried again. Same thing with this health care thing, I believe we can't just rush into it that it takes time, but if it does fail that we should try again. And look, we've been with the Constitution since it was ratified. And I think the government is going away from it now, and we need to reevaluate what the rights in it say. We have to have a stricter interpretation on it, because it would eliminate some of this mudslinging. But above all, I think the American people need to stick up to their leaders and role models and tell them to shape up a bit (putting it in really really nice terms). I mean it's embarrassing that we have to have discussions like this because our leaders can't act in a respectable way. It's horrible that society resorts to mudslinging as a way to be heard or to have the most headlines in the media. What I think is the worst is that our leaders give everyone of that section a horrible reputation just because they did or said something wrong. Which means to me that people have too much power, and we trust them with too much power. I wish that we could be more like a true democracy, and vote on more issues and let the American people decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong. It's not very ideal, but it would reduce the madness and we would essentially get more things done. I am almost of voting age, but even here in Oregon I wish I could vote, even if I know that it's going to end up one way, we recently had a measure controversy and it was pretty close in some counties in the state. If we had that authority more often then it would give the American people the feeling that we actually did decide for ourselves, not a bunch of people that we thought we trusted when we elected them four, two, or however many years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I AGREE WITH CHARLES EVERY STEP OF THE WAY CHARLES YOU ARE 100% RIGHT

    ReplyDelete
  10. I agree with you that the violence and behavior of cetain parties is very worrisome and sad. This Bill has the capacitty to help a lot of people who would otherwise not have access to medical assistance. That having been said, and as much as I adore you Charles, I don't think this situation can be compared to Kristallnacht. Hitler and the Nazis were in a sick, pathetic league of rheir own (and I hope to God we never see that again!). My grandmother was Jewish and had all her children raised as Catholics due to her fear of anti-semitism, and I've worked with Holocaust survivors so I am very much aware of what happened. Regardless, I would like to give my opinion on the subjectat hand:

    1-The very idea of Sarah Palin in any position of real power is unthinkable. I see this woman's mouth moving but nothing intelligent or worth hearing is coming out. I honestly do not understand how she got this far. Every time dhe talks it gives a whole new meaning to the definition of "The Twilight Zone"

    2- Given the subject & magnitude of this Bill, and the fact that it is new and there are still modificatons to be made to it, how can anyone be expected to understand it? There's so much contradictary information being given out there by the media, one can't help but be confused and fearful. I doubt if even the politians understand it.

    3-Unfortunately, as is often the case fear and ignorance tend to lead to violence. However, any person in a position capable of stopping this manifestation of violence has the obligation to do so. To stand by and do nothing or worse encouraging it, is unacceptable as well as irresponsable.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Actually, Republican Representatives Eric Cantor and Jean Schmidt have both received threats:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/89065-gop-lawmaker-now-reports-threat-over-healthcare-stance

    ReplyDelete
  12. Charlie, you said:[[These are not Democrats spewing this bile and threatening elected officials with bodily harm; these are solely Republicans]]

    Proof please?! I know you want to believe that every act of violence is a registered Republican, but YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. There are angry Democrats who are furious that single payer and public option were sold out to the corporations. They are angry that they spent 2 yrs sacrificing to campaign for and donate money to a candidate who promised them health care REFORM with no lobbies, complete transparency, no back room deals..and they got the "Merry Christmas Aetna" bill instead. Not that there aren't Republicans behaving badly, but please. Just like the Democrat plant who yelled "Kill him" at Palin's campaign rally...they could even be opposition trying to discredit the naysayers. Bart Stupak was threatened BEFORE he changed his vote to yes(not by Republicans, I'd assume).
    It does no good to marginalize, mock, degrade, ridicule, insult the 50%(or more) of Americans who oppose this drek. Swaggering on to a stage and saying "Bring it on" is going to accomplish nothing except to have people respond "ok, we will".
    I realize you want the opposition to sit down, shut up, and marvel at the historic wonder that is Obama and this sham of a law....but it's not going to happen. Peaceful protests will continue, and it will increase as people come off cloud 9 and realize what this is.

    ReplyDelete
  13. oh, and PS. I want you to think, really really hard, about what would have happened in this country if Obama had lost the election? Considering that the Black Panthers were outside a polling place with billy clubs and the Obama supporters so no valid reason to dislike his policies(so therefore we all knew the "real" reason..wink wink). Can I assume that there would have been peaceful protests, no violence, no broken windows? And that you'd have started a blog about Kristallnacht and how dangerous the Obama voters are. Really?

    ReplyDelete
  14. I know how much you HATE Sarah Palin. She endured some pretty extreme attacks during the
    campaign. Can it be said that the Democratic party planned or endorsed these things? Well, it can
    be said, but it is simply not true. Neither can a few extremists be blamed on the Republican party.
    Anyone who engages in illegal activities should be arrested and prosecuted. No matter what party
    is in power.
    Free speech is allowed. Your blog is an prime example. You have a legion of adoring fans, and
    you want to indoctrinate them. This is completely normal. Blog on!

    Here is the one example you asked for. Hacking Sarah Palin's email account. Ilegal in the least.
    Did the "Democrats" do it? Of course not!
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7622726.stm

    Sarah Palin Porn movie: Really bad taste. Larry Flint is a Democrat.
    Does this mean the Democratic Party SPONSORED this? Of course not!
    http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/10/07/2008-10-07_new_details_on_larry_flynts_sarah_palin_.html

    Canada Free Press Blog: Obviously opinion based. I am assuming in the wake of Larry Flint's
    contribution above, I guess free speech is still OK.
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12676

    More opinion:
    http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2008/09/hillary-supporters-enraged-over-attacks-on-sarah-palins-17-yr-old-daughter/

    I tried to avoid using Fox News since I know they don't have the right to speak, but they are the only
    reference I can find that there have been Healthcare threats on Republicans too. I have heard the recording of
    the call. Evidently this isn't important to the other news outlets. Democrats are fundraising off these
    horrible incidents. Wierd extremists just don't understand how this plays into the other side's hands,
    politics is an equal opportunity spin zone. I will say that BOTH sides do it, and both will continue to do so.


    Your comments:
    -Republican Tancredo calls for a return to "literacy tests" as a voting requisite because we have a black President.
    Are you suggesting Black people can't read? All my black friends can.

    -Sarah Palin identifies pro-health Democrats with sniper cross-hairs over their locations.
    How many times have you heard Democrats use the word "target" in a political sense?

    -we will NOT tolerate fascism, we will not tolerate treason, we will defend the United States from enemies within and without. These violent and dangerous aggressors must be prosecuted and jailed if our country is to survive.
    Sounds great! The first thing fascists do is eliminate free speech. Calling free speech treason is exactly what Hitler did. Why is it OK for you to rant, but yell "treason" when those who disagree speak? You are lucky the fascists aren't in power. They might stop you from speaking too!

    -" Oh yeah, well the Democrats are guilty of the same thing," show me just ONE example.
    See Above.

    This is first time I have posted. I guess it was time for me to "connect". Feel free to keep up the hate speech. It is your right.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I just read an article about Palin and the tea party going out in large groups to protest the democrats that voted for the bill.

    I don't read her posts and those of others like her (even though I have some facebook friends that do) but this kind of mob mentality is so unproductive and even simulates what they are protesting... governmental control of private life.

    Americans should maintain their dignity and voice their concerns without this kind of display of photo opportunities that benefit the book sales of a few.

    This kind of thing is not restricted to this group...I've seen these appalling characteristics in all sorts of "made for TV" demonstrations.

    My hope is that people will quit voting according to party...period...and that they will vote from the local levels up with true conviction.

    I am definitely not in agreement with the current health bill, however, I will not let this issue push me into voting for a party instead of a candidate.

    I don't mind telling you that I have been listening to the candidates for governor here in Texas and so far the democratic nominee seems like a better candidate to me.

    I don't notice the party designations anymore...they both manipulate and strong arm people to vote according to party...no different from Palin or Beck who wallow in their followers.

    How many of us settle for one party or the other just for the sake of voting? Why not have a place on the ballot for those who want to say "I'm an American that does not wish to vote for any of the nominated candidates into office".

    Sure...it won't keep any of the undesired candidates from being voted in...but it sure would be a tell all of the real support and not the "I give up" support.

    I choose to believe that there are Americans with dignity from all opinions that will use their voice in an effective manner.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Mr. Shaughnessy:

    So many people have brought up so many good points, and there is no need for me to repeat them.

    However, nobody has yet addressed your comment:
    ". . . and at a cost of a trillion dollar deficit REDUCTION, according to the BI-LATERAL Congressional Budget Office, . . ."

    Keep in mind, the CBO can only work with the numbers Congress gives them. If the CBO is given numbers that have no basis in reality, then their conclusion can't be anything other than faulty.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Mr. Shaughnessy makes great points with his blogs. He is the only person actually not afraid to speak their mind and put the truth out there. You Go Mr. Shaughnessy!

    ReplyDelete
  18. To be honest, the health care bill has me a bit confused, along with many other folks I guess. I understand we are saving money and providing more healthcare to more people which we certainly need, the republicans complain that its socialism, we on the left think its not enough -are we really turning back roe vs. wade? or am I misinterpreting? Will the pharmaceutical and insurance companies make big bucks along the way while the govt saves money?

    ReplyDelete
  19. My thoughts are many.. But I would like you to notice how many that have chimed in on this blog. And how many have been in favor of this healthcare bill, and how many have not. I've read them all, and from what I can see it mirrors the feelings of our country. We don't want this bill shoved down our throats. We don't want the cost to be handed down to our children, and our children's children.
    We are afraid of them passing a bill that they haven't even read yet. And nobody understands it.
    We as American's don't want our freedoms taken away. Such as the mandate of either you by healthcare or you are fined, and possible jail time. As if that would not cost the tax payers loads of money. This whole thing is silly. Most American's don't want other American's not to have healthcare. But at what price??
    When they should have taken the time to do it right. That both sides would accept as a great bill for the American people.. That didn't happen.. My question is why?
    What is really going on?

    As for the things that Sarah Palin said, or Glen Beck said, or Pelosi said, (That we were Astroturf) etc.
    Or any of the other ones. I don't see one person arrested, or one video of the action or one recording of somebody saying something.. People lie. Both sides lie.. So far there hasn't been much in the way of proof. (Real Proof)
    So its a non issue to me.
    It means nothing. There will always be the wing nuts of both sides that will shoot a gun in a window, or throw a rock, or spit, etc. But 99% of the people that I've seen protest, have been the kindest, neatest, sweetest people you would ever want to meet. I would encourage you and anyone else to come to a tea party rally and see for yourself. You would be very impressed by the people you see. And I mean that in a good way.
    Also, the tea parties are not all Reps. There are Dems, and Ind. there too. Maybe not as loud, but if you were to talk to them, you'd see that its a cross section of groups that are there. We are not our party. We are American's and would like to be seen as such.
    We believe we have the right to free speech. We really are losing that right, but its still there.. sort of.
    Free speech is the right for you to say whatever you feel and think, without discrimination, or threat of arrest. If the KKK has the right to wear their sheets and parade down the town square, and spew their hatred, then we have the right to assemble and say how we feel about what is being shoved down our throats.

    In this bill, millions of dollars are being cut from Medicare. Medicare doesn't cover everything as it is. How is it going to be when services are cut more? We are looking at retirement age now, its very scary to think about it.

    To sum this up, I believe its a matter of this government wanting total control over us. Starting with our healthcare.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Charlie, I don't know whether to say that I'm stunned, befuddled, confused, or just plain stumped. I never thought that I would ever see someone write that the Gestapo (those lovely folks who brought us the original Kristallnacht) were "Gangs of 'passionate' patriots [who] roamed the streets of Berlin in the name of Nationalism to break the heads or windows of any they saw as threats to the health of their glorious Homeland." Certainly you cannot be comparing the Republicans (or, more precisely, the folks who are breaking windows) to the Gestapo (aka Hitler's Secret State Police). This is definitely NOT another Kristallnacht, no matter how much you think it might be.

    One former congressman has already alleged that he was threatened by Rahm Emanuel to vote for the health care plan or else--are you saying then that the strong arm tactics of Obama's chief of staff are acceptable, but that people expressing their displeasure with a law they do not support is not acceptable? If so, it's probably a good thing that you weren't around in 1773 when some militant Bostonians decided to demonstrate their displeasure with Parliament granting a monopoly to the British East India Company by dressing up like Mohawk Indians and dumping unloaded chests of tea into the harbor. Now THAT was a tea party--and I haven't seen anything like it with the current protests (although I must admit it would be fun to see some of these people dressed in colonial costumes). The tea parties are exercising people's right to free speech, and in a less destructive manner than in December 1773.

    And, if you think about it a bit, the rise of the Ku Klux Klan following the Civil War (a group led predominantly by Southern Democrats who were objecting to Republican policies) resulted from their displeasure with Reconstruction and the process of restoring the nation following the Civil War (particularly emancipation of slaves, civil rights, and voting rights for freed African Americans). None of the actions of these "tea party" participants or the folks throwing bricks through windows come even close to the activities of the Klan in the post-Civil War era. So you cannot accurately state that one political party is less responsible than another (or more responsible, depending upon your perspective), because both the Republicans and Democrats have been guilty of inflammatory rhetoric in the past, just as they are today.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I do not believe the government wants "total control over us", but in these perilous economic times the government is obligated to step in and help.

    Despite my confusion about some aspects of the healthcare bill, I believe it was desperately needed to fulfill the demands of a growing population of poor and unemployed folks.

    Obviously, we have the right to protest. Slinging racist slurs and so forth, however, is beneath contempt as far as I'm concerned, as are alot of other behaviours, such as shooting doctors who perform abortions and so on.

    so right on, charlie!

    ReplyDelete
  22. @ Kathy...the government(for decades, so bipartisan) CREATED these perilous economic times with their policies and their cohabitation with the very businesses that are now "the enemy". There is a revolving door between Wall St. and K Street...bankers(especially) get jobs as lobbyists when "their team" is in power, make deals that benefit their industry, then go back to Wall St. and reap the benefits, while their coworkers move on to the "new administration". So now, they are benevolent and step in, to 'help us'. It's pretty sick and twisted, and not at all new to this administration. New boss same as the old boss.
    And, as for the CBO score that's been discussed,the CBO is notorious for being WAY off on their estimates, sometimes by as much as 700%. Part of the reason the score "looks good" is because of the revamping of the student loan stuff. The savings from the student loans is "added" to the health care savings, to make HC look better. Again, not new to Washington Ways, but still true. Then there's that whole Ponzi scheme of collecting taxes for 10 years, but only paying health care benefits for 6 yrs. Washington is such a cess pool.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Note about entities and organizations that want you to rally behind a select few in the name of freedom...

    After you have rallied your support, how would you be treated by that same entity or organization if in the future you had a difference of opinion?

    Would you be treated the same way that the few are inciting the followers to react to those that don't agree with them?, i.e. - a bull horn outside your house so to speak or comments like "go for it".

    After a while does "I want to hear what the people have to say" become less and less a motivation and will you be hearing more and more of what the spokespeople have to say?

    Is there a way of recourse if a movement or a decision you participated in turns sour?

    One of my major problems with the current health bill is that I'm not hearing or seeing a way of recourse for the people if it doesn't work out.

    Don't get me wrong - disagreement is like "iron sharpening iron" if it is done in the proper perspective.

    Learn, participate, vote...follow YOUR convictions as an INDIVIDUAL.

    And when we participate in the needs of our country as individuals in a proper, dignified manner...we will be becomer sharper.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Please would someone send me a link so that I can actually see what is so controversial in this Bill.

    So far I can´t really see all the fuss , but if I had a little more knowledge I could understand the uproar better.

    When I hear people are paying $500 and more , I am asking myself what kind of system is in the US anyway.
    No wonder many Americans have no insurance beause they can´t afford it, so wouldn´t it be better to make it compulsary for all Insurance companies to have affordable prices and those that wish more can have more!
    I know when I was young , I would moan about paying fees "for others" but today being older and needing more medical care I am so glad I´m in a solidary system which is here in Germany . It´s not perfect mind you as costs are rising in medical care due to new inovations etc.Above a certain income one has to insure themselves private anyway , but it is still affordable.The sytem si that one pays around 15% of their income per month ,split between employer and employee. At the present the new Healthminister is trying to get in a compulsary rate og €150 for everyone , from the baby to the millionaire ,who pays no more! which means many pensioners will have to get Gov. aid to cover this!!
    This is the capitalist party FDP which have many lobbiest in their midst from big business.Bismarck who started the solidarity system must be turning in his grave!!
    Incidentally in Germany you can still choose your health fund, so they are not Government run institutions.
    That is why I would like to know how the new Bill in the US is going to work.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Liane:

    Here's a link to the bill. Have fun reading it. It's 2409 pages.

    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3590eas.txt.pdf

    Here's a link to an article by Andrea Mitchell called, "10 Ways ObamaCare Will Take Away Our Freedoms."

    http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2010/03/22/20-ways-obamacare-will-take-away-our-freedoms/

    And here's a list I compiled to accompany that article that shows where to find the points she brought up.

    Point #1 - page 321, line19 - page 323, line 17
    Point #2 - page 519, lines 11 - 15
    Point #3 - page 19, lines 3 - 11
    Point #4 - page 20, line 6 - page 21, line 12
    Point #5 - page 22, lines 10 - 19
    Point #6 - page 105, lines 5 - 24
    Point #7 - page 114, lines 9 - 13
    Point #8 - page 111, lines 14 - 20
    Point #9 - page 345, lines 18 - 21
    Point #10 - page 1960, lines 5 - 12
    Point #11 - page 649, lines 8 - 21
    Point #12 - page 1501, line 17 - page 1502, line 4
    Point #13 - page 1502, lines 5 -13
                    page 1510, lines 6 - 17
                    page 1509, lines 4 - 15
    Point #14 - page 40, lines 17 - 24
    Point #15 - page 1972, line 3 - page 1973, line 9
    Point #16 - page 1981, line 6 - page 1982, line 9
    Point #17 - page 1986, line 23 - page 1987, line 21
    Point #18 - page 1996, lines 3 - 24
    Point #19 - page 2000, line 24 - page 2009, line 9
    Point #20 - page 2005, lines 3 - 7

    ReplyDelete
  26. Hi Charles, I am also a friend of yours on MySpace and Facebook, with my real name Diane Dunwell-Hoffman.

    I am so disturbed by the division in this country. I, like you am disgusted with the behavior of the majority of the Republicans, undermining all the efforts of the current administration to bring this country back to it's former glory.

    I can't understand how these same people can disapprove of the money being spent to improve the lives of all of our citizens, yet approved of the former administration's trillion dollar illegal war debt, that in fact lined the pockets of all those who had vested interest in Halliburton.

    They keep using the abortion issue to instigate disapproval of the health care bill, yet during Nixon's administration it was a Republican Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun who ruled that it was a woman's right by the Constitution to have an abortion, and it was Justice Byron White a Democrat who dissented the issue taking the side of the Constitutional rights of the unborn.

    They are now crying that it is unconstitutional for a person to be required to have health insurance. Well, we all pay school tax even if we do not have children in school. We are required to conform to many laws that some believe are unconstitutional.

    I sure wish we all could unite. We are The United States. I have tried to have peaceful discussions with my own Republican friends and relatives, and only find people with blinders on.

    False propaganda turned many of the ordinary people of Germany into frightened, revenge filled mobs. This escalated to the annihilation of millions. I pray this will never happen here.


    Someone asked about Kristallnacht,
    Kristallnacht was known as the night of broken glass when the windows of Jewish owned business and homes were broken in order to take them over as property of the Nazi state. As many as 30,000 Jews were arrested and imprisoned, and 91 murdered.

    It was propagated by the gestapo after a Polish Jewish young man whose family were deported by the Nazi's, assassinated a German Diplomat in Paris.

    Thank you for making many aware of the dangerous slope we are sliding down.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Still not sure why there's 2 blogs going at once, of the same articles (i.e. here and myspace) but this looks to be more involved, so I'll repost my previous myspace post.

    I think comparing this to Kristallnacht is a bit extreme, however, there are some people in the idiot fringe who are definitely crossing the lines of decorum. People have every right to be mad and to say so. But, when violent threats and actions by some start ocurring, then legal actions need to be taken. The votes have gone through, if you have a problem with the outcome, get your butt into a voting booth in November and say so.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I agree completely. Thanks for stating your thoughts so succinctly. Hope to see you soon as a panelist on Bill Maher.

    ReplyDelete
  29. @ Liane. I do pay almost $600/month for my coverage, but that is because my state(NJ, along with CA,NY, and MA I believe) are extremely high. That isn't typical of most states. Our states prohibit "catastrophic policies"(which have low premiums but only cover crises, the everyday expenses are out of pocket), so everyone who has to buy insurance for themselves gets a high-deductible, low(???) premium policy. Those policies will no longer be acceptable, so we will need to upgrade our insurance plans, even if we don't want or need to. People also have "health savings accounts" to pay for the OOP expenses(including over the counter medications), but those will also now be affected(otc meds no longer accepted, limits on the amount you can put in your HSA).
    I also noticed you said that everyone pays into the system. Not so here, and that is a BIG issue. The number of people who do not pay taxes is staggering(I think it's 40% who get a complete refund). The 60% of us who do can not support the other 40%. And, if we give illegals amnesty/citizenship..they will fall into the same poverty level that qualifies for all of the assistance programs(but guess which political party they'll join??). For the size of our population, it's unsustainable as it is and the plan doesn't help things. Makes many things worse...IF you're a middle class working stiff. If you're rich, not much can hurt your lifestyle(and they have all sorts of tax shelters), if you're poor you get the benefit programs. And it's creating a lot of anger from the middle who is being squeezed beyond what we can bear.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Charlie--I'm just a bit curious. Are you going to address some of the issues brought up in this blog relating to the accuracy of your information/interpretation, or just ignore them and hope they (or we) go away like a typical Democrat? I know that my colleagues who are Democrats hate it when I point out the logical fallacies and historical inaccuracies of their arguments (and ask them to provide solid evidence to support their allegations), and they storm off in a huff rather than justify their views.

    And, in case you haven't noticed, it's not just the Glenn Becks of the world who are raising hell--it's also the Keith Olbermanns of the world, too. Inflammatory rhetoric comes in many shades.

    ReplyDelete
  31. I agree with this blog 100%. I don't remember ever seeing this much violence and hatered displayed before Obama's presidency. Am hoping that these "schoolyard bullies" and extremist groups will subside some. Not wanting it to progress into a revolution. Am hoping Americans would not resort to further violence. That they are just blowing off steam. In pretty awful, immature, and ignorant ways. How can these possibly be educated adults, i don't know. Worried also that the American hate groups such as the Timothy McVey's or KKK's don't seize an opprountiy during this mess to attack or release acts of violence on our government. Unfortunaly folks such as this have been waiting for chances to be heard and could jump on their bandwagon. Yes, even if there is only acts of mild violence. And i have to agree with Charles. It is not seemingly the Democrats or Independents who are doing the out crying. If our government is attacked by our own citizens because of angry Repbulicans that have declared a politcal war. It will be a crying shame and the extreme right should be ashamed of themselves. And i hope they are persucted to the full extent of the law. As far as i am concerned they will become the American taliban. Fellow citizens or not. And if President Obama is assasinated due to all this crap getting progressively worse. I hope his legacy will be 10 fold. And pray it will not start a race war between outraged AfricanAmericans. They will think it may had something to do with his race. And i hope the idiotcy and ignorant attitude of some current Republicans drives away rationally thinking Independent voters to our side or any other candidate for that matter.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I'm not sure if you even look at the links that we send you (maybe you're a little worried to do so, lol) but I found one that I thought you should see since it involves the race card that you seem to keep throwing at us again and again and yet again.

    http://biggovernment.com/hoftandjackson/2010/04/01/its-time-for-the-black-caucus-race-hustlers-to-apologize-for-slandering-tea-party-patriots/

    biggovernment.com
    On Saturday March 20th the leftist media reported what they described as a horrible story from their sources at the conservative-hating Huffington Post. The media claimed that members of the Congressional ...


    This article includes a phone video that was recorded by Rep. Jesse Jackson, JR. showing some of the action that really went down. However, the Huffington Post portrayed it as a whole different scenario (imagine that). This falsified story was then repeated by ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News as well (even by Bill O'Reilly). And then you wonder why people like you feel the way you do. Because the media tries to stir up anger amongst the people by putting one against the other through their stories of falsification. Can't you see, they're only afraid of us Americans who have had enough and are finally standing up to our corrupted government and speaking out with our voices (not our fists, spit, and racial slurs as they like to claim). Sure, EVERY side has their crazy "nut jobs" who act out in violence but that is NOT the majority as you like to point out so very often to us. The media is afraid that we actually have a chance to turn the tables through our numbers and voices so therefore, they have to throw out these stories that are manipulated in such a way so as to stir up the anger from the other "bunch" hoping that they can even out the process and stir up even more trouble. Both sides should really be angry at the media for not telling their stories in truth. In that aspect they really are so much like the Newspeak.

    I can tell you for sure that whether our President was white OR black, I would STILL feel just as strongly about this reform bill, no more and definitely no less.

    ReplyDelete
  33. @skat35 If you go to Charlie's latest blog(Frank:tell it like it is) you will see many examples that several of us have posted, showing full well that the Dems were just as generous with their angry rhetoric towards Pres. Bush..even worse if you compare the images on the signs with today's rallies. Here's the most famous website:
    http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death-threats-against-bush-at-protests-i.html

    It would be interesting to get a response from those of you who are just SURE there has never been such vitriol before 1/20/2009...to hear just what you have to say about these images.
    And I can guess part of the response is "well, Bush..illegal war...patriot act..". Well, you might want to contact your DEMOCRAT congresscritters who voted for those wars(and overwhelmingly so for the Patriot Act) why they did that to you.

    ReplyDelete

Charles Shaughnessy on YouTube

Loading...

Followers

Charles Shaughnessy visitors

Total Pageviews