Tea among the Ruins...

I am amused by all the bleating about dysfunction in Washington, particularly as we now have exactly what half the country wanted in the last election. We, the People, elected a divided government precisely because we didn't want anyone to get their way. We sealed the deal by electing enough Tea Party candidates to ensure gridlock. They have stated time and again that they will not settle for anything other than total victory or "death." Anyone else see a parallel between AlQuaeda and the Tea Party? A group of idealogue fundamentalists, co-opted to wage a dirty war, who then turn on their handlers and cause untold chaos and destruction on anyone that gets in their way: and I include the leader of their own party! Let me expand on this..their dogged, commitment to a fundamental ideology will bring down our economy and do untold damage to our system of government on a parallel to 9/11. And before anyone says" yes, but without the human cost." Let's check back in a year or two and count the number of veterans who have succumbed to reduced care, disaster victims who have succumbed to a reduced FEMA budget, homeless and starving who have succumbed to a vastly reduced safety net, victims of asthma and bronchial conditions who have succumbed to increased pollution ...the list of shame will go on and on...That is what the Tea Party stands for and that is who we handed the reins of power to.
cred text (see: US Constitution) in the most perverse ways to further their creed....


To read the comments that all of you have left on this blog AND Charlie's comments back to you, click on the link comments HERE OR at the bottom of this blog where it says, for example, 26 comments. Also, be aware that we moderate the comments, (we do not censor however) we don't allow anonymous comments anymore (you can log in with many different accounts) and are on West Coast Time, so they will get approved as soon as we see them.

Comments

  1. O.K. Charlie, I have loved that you have been blogging again, but this is getting ridiculous! To be clear, your blogging is not ridiculous it is that these politicians are creating a need for you to keep venting. I wonder how many of your followers will continue to indulge you. Well, I know one! I think it is good for my family that I have a place to vent my frustrations. Thanks for providing this forum.

    I wish everybody would go to the chart that Lissa just posted to see Bush's vs. Obama's real contribution to our national deficit. What the heck, I will provide the link here. http://wapo.st/qqnDcc

    It is quite informative. I blame the people. They need to understand what is really happening in this country. My son-in-law told my daughter that he agrees that we should increase revenue--that is until she had to tell him that revenue comes in the way of increased taxes. Trust me, he is not to the point in life yet where he would be paying greater taxes. Don't get me wrong, I love him, but there are too many people who really don't get it. I actually have a Romney in mind that I want to win the presidency--I just want it to be in about 35 years after his maternal grandparents have indoctrinated him with their political ideas. Yes, I said it!

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  2. Charles I'm getting worried about you. Watch your heart, I can't give you CPR in Illinois. lol

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  3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcEumfNE9vM

    tea in the sahara...by the police.

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  4. I tend to agree with you. We have exactly the government we chose in 2010 and now we are paying the price for it. Compromise now means "giving me everything I want" at least from the Republican side of the aisle.

    I find it interesting that so much of the conservative side of the spectrum looks back fondly at past and praises those who sacrificed for the country, yet refuse to ask those who have benefitted the most to share in the sacrifice they now seem to believe is required from the middle and lower classes in this country. Apparently sacrificing something is only honorable when other people are doing it.

    I look forward to reading more of your blogs.

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  5. For sure! I see a parallel between the two. I just wish they themselves would and make a change. I feel you, it will be a sad America indeed if they have their just desserts. It is pure shocking. Religion seems to have crept into politics through a back door as well. It all seems unAmerican to me. Hard to comprehend how things could go this way. Seems is all to protect big business and the entrepreneurs. Never would i have imagined i would utter these words. Call me a traitor, hopefully not. But if things get too sad of a state, i hope for some sort of socialistic changes. Never thought i'd wonder if i was in the wrong country. If happens California please succeed and take this native Floridan with you. Makes me want to cry thinking of it, i love USA and her citizens. Just wish they'd get head out of buts. And are some politicians idiots? how did they get elected? Is madness.

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  6. I don't know where to begin...

    Okay, first, while "we the people" may have elected a divided government, the divided government was a result of unrest/discontent at what we were seeing in Washington. The American people elected members of the House and the Senate from our respective congressional districts and states; the result of this election was a divided government. Saying that we elected a divided government implies that we deliberately intended to do this, which was not the case. And it's not the first time we've had a divided government (in other words, one in which either Congress is controlled by a party different from the president or one in which one house is controlled by a different party than the other); it's probably happened more often than one party has controlled the federal government. Bill Clinton had to deal with it; George W. Bush had to deal with it; now Barack Obama gets a chance to show his leadership ability by dealing with it.

    Second, who do you mean by the leader of the Tea Party? The Tea Party is a faction within the Republican Party--a minority faction. Is it a member of the House or the Senate? One of the possible candidates for the Republican nomination for President in 2012? The chair of the Republican National Committee? Maybe I'm clueless, but John Boehner certainly isn't the leader of the Tea Party movement (in fact, they have criticized his efforts to cooperate with the Democrats). By definition, the movement doesn’t have a leader, although several members of Congress are considered among the “leadership” group because they are associated with the ideals of the Tea Party movement. And the person who is usually identified as the leader of the movement has no elected position—and thus is not a member of Congress and is not directly involved in the budget debate.

    (more to come--blasted character limit!)

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  7. (cont'd)
    Third, I don’t recall us handing the reins of power over to the Tea Party. You make it sound like the Tea Party is an actual political party (like the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, the Green Party, the Reform Party, the Socialist Party, etc.), when that is not the case. It’s a political movement of people who are frustrated with what they see as government waste and are expressing their discontent at the ballot box, just like you express your discontent with what is happening through your blog. The last time I checked the U.S. Constitution (which you cite when you state who controls the government), it says nothing about a minority faction being able to control the government (although certainly that did happen in the 1950s and 1960s as a coalition of Southern Democrats were able to stonewall efforts to pass civil rights legislation, and in the 1850s when Southern Democrats limited discussion during debates over the admission of “free” and “slave” states to the Union--in one instance leading to the physical assault on a Northern Senator and in another a fistfight on the floor of the House). While James Madison argued against the dangers of factions in Federalist #10 (you want to whip out the Constitution; I’m dragging out the Federalist Papers), his concern was that too many factions (groups of citizens whose interests are contrary to those of the larger community) would lead to the government being unable to function effectively…and that the election of a president would be decided by the House because no one candidate would gain a majority of electoral votes. While the House hasn’t had to deal with the outcome of a presidential election since 1824, Madison certainly was a visionary when he expressed concerns about government gridlock resulting from too many factions—although I wouldn’t be surprised if Madison at heart would have supported the Tea Party’s efforts to promote a limited government, because, as one of the founders of the Democratic-Republican Party (a loose ancestor of the modern-day Democratic Party), he opposed the intervention of the federal government into people’s daily lives and preferred a strict interpretation of the Constitution—an interpretation that does not support expenditures for social programs, since they are not explicitly included in the Constitution (although they can be interpreted as included in the “promote the general welfare” statement in the Preamble if you interpret it loosely, which Madison did not).

    By the way, Charlie, while you wonder about what’s going to happen to those people whose social services will be affected by budget cuts—how do you propose we pay for these services? Or are you one of the group who thinks that we can just print more money (actually, we legally can’t—but we reportedly can mint more coins) in order to pay for them?

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  8. well, no shock here, I totally disagree with you. As I'm reading, the TP Group understands the need to raise the debt ceiling, but not without concrete spending cuts and plans for a balanced budget. The balanced budget amendment has so many loopholes in it,it guarantees that the budget will never be balanced. But to the citizens, it 'sounds like'...oh, they're putting something in there that forces them to balance the budget! And it's all a big con game. Charlie, I think you grossly underestimate the support that these rogue politicians have among the citizens. They've opened our eyes to the corruption, funny money scams, etc that are going on in Washington, and we are channeling Howard Beale...we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore.
    The whole game says "If you sign here, we'll give you budget cuts later on", and we KNOW all politicians lie! They're saying "I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today" but tomorrow never comes.
    While I do think the Tea Party Gang needs to bend a little, they shouldn't do so by compromising what they HEARD the people say they wanted. Take the money we've given you and use it wisely, not squandering it like always. But truthfully, Obama and the Dems have been whining about the Reps not cooperating since day one. Everything is a "chicken little" crisis, and now we don't believe them. When the Dems had a supermajority in Congress, they couldn't get things done. They had to BRIBE their own party to vote for Obamacare! The Blue Dogs "held them hostage", but were easily bought off. I suspect there are similar deals being made as we speak. Hopefully, the TP will hold their ground, instead of being taken for a ride in AFOne and changing their vote when they get off. We NEED politicians with backbone. And we need them to work out a solution without resorting to bribes. The people KNOW how budgets work...it's what we all do every day.

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  9. I am not so sure Charlie is overestimating the lack of support these rogue politicians have. Take Nevada for instance. In '10 Senator Harry Reid ran for re-election and his opponent was a Tea Partier. I can tell you that people here in Nevada HATED Senator Reid (not me by the way). Trust me, I heard it all. He is evil; he looks like Satan (I don't know where they have all seen Satan--maybe on The Strip); he would sell his soul. Yet, even with that kind of disdain, they voted for him over the Tea Partier. I am happy to say that Nevadans did not swallow the Tea. The polls had Senator Reid's opponent ahead up to the very end. When the tally was counted, it was not nearly as close as people expected. Yes, people were tempted to go Tea Party, but in the end they knew they did not want such extremes. I wonder if other voters wonder now if they should have followed Nevada. It is one thing for which I am proud of Nevada.

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  10. Not to change the subject, but if we could get back to the Q&A part of this blog, I wanted to make a comment if I could. I have been following your career and projects you have done throughout the years. I have to say Mr. Shaughnessy that I have a tremendous amount of respect for you. For someone of your talent to be such a devoted husband and family man is very impressive. You treat your career with respect as any career should be. In this, I mean you are not plastered all over the tabloids (I suppose so anyway, I do not bother with that trash) and I just wanted to share that with you. I am a true fan of your talent as well as your interesting blogs. Thank you for blogs that are truly stimulating as well as informative. I look forward to seeing you again. Is it hard to do love scenes? I have to say you make it look so easy.

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  11. I totally agree with your post. The hypocrisy and stupidity of the Tea Party just makes me ill. Which is why I am taking action. I am a member of "The Coffee Party". We are a group of progressives, moderate Republicans & Independents who are fed up with the rhetoric and the hijacking of our political & economic system by the Teabaggers. Please check us out on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/coffeeparty We need more civility in the political process & are looking to restore it.

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  12. Wanted to add! Thankful to Charlie for starting the venting about these trying current governmental issues. Feels better after discussing and hearing others concerns about it. Great idea! Hopefully we can ALL still afford our internet bill (as sk donovan stated earlier = Amen!) so we can continue our political venting. Just remembered, missing my blogging hero (besides Charlie) = David Vidal! Nite all!

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  13. Ha! Ha! Kathy, I like it!! If the Coffee Party stands for common sense on the issues across party lines, and for genuine debate, compromise and partnership, sign me up!!! It's amazing to me that in Kindergarten "Group play" is all they ever talk about: how to get along with each other, even if you disagree or don't like each other. My daughters are experts in completing a school project with a group of colleagues that they may not like, agree with, understand even...but they have the skills to work as a group and get it done because they have not taken any pledges or oaths to the contrary, are not beholden to one set of friends or another and have the end goal in sight at all times. I bet there are a lot of 10 year olds who could run congress a lot better than any of these old farts!!!

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  15. @Kathy and Charlie~ I think you're assuming that anyone who supports this "cap,cut and balance" idea is automatically a Tea-partying, homophobic, racist combination of Ebenezer Scrooge and Marie Antoinette. And that's NOT true. I've never been to a TP rally, don't plan on it, but I *do* agree with their fiscal philosophy...and there are many out here like me, who wish they'd keep their noses out of social/religious issues that have nothing to do with politics. Charlie said:"If the Coffee Party stands for common sense on the issues across party lines, and for genuine debate, compromise and partnership, sign me up!" For many of us, common sense *IS* raising the debt ceiling(an unfortunate necessity), with concrete cuts in nonsense spending, a plan to prevent more nonsense from creeping in(aka pork, aka BRIBERY), and a real plan to balance the budget, not this facockte 'amendment' with loopholes to get them out of it.
    I see that as common sense(esp. if it's what financial gurus tell the people to do with their personal budgets)...and I agree with you on the rest. So...does the Coffee Party want some of the same things we want? Do you all want the bribes for votes to stop? Tax-evaders prohibited from being in charge of our Treasury and tax laws? Do you want accountability from politicians whose votes deny what they say?
    They have continually used our lives for political gain. They rant about the evil rich/corporations not paying tax...when THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MADE THE TAX LAWS! And the great majority of them are rich and have major stake in corporations..it's a conflict of interest..and they take advantage of the loopholes themselves to avoid paying full tax. The Dems had control of congress for 4 yrs, even with a supermajority...and didn't do anything about it. Save for a few, they're all corrupt. Maybe we could put Ron Paul, Marco Rubio, Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich in a room for a few days, and see what they can come up with..though don't offer Kucinich any airplane rides, the altitude causes him to change his tune.

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  16. @Jeannie: About that link you posted--it's kind of misleading. The way the information is presented only looks at "new" spending (or decreased revenue in the case of tax cuts) that occurred during each of the administrations; it doesn't take into account increased costs of existing programs (for instance, I guess you would find Social Security expenditures under FDR, since he was president when the program was created). Plus, it's not reasonable to compare two years of Obama versus eight years of Bush; I would love to meet a statistician who would consider this to be sound methodology (as someone who has dabbled in quantitative history, we immediately dismiss these types of comparisons because they are incomplete).

    Yes, it does address the "real contribution" to the national deficit by both Bush and Obama, but it overlooks two key things: (1) the wars started during the Bush administration have continued to be funded by Congress--it's not like those expenditures have gone away; and (2) the Bush tax cuts were extended in December 2010--when the Democrats still controlled both houses of Congress and the "Tea Party" Congressmen had not yet taken office (that didn't occur until January 2011). So you can't lay the blame on the current situation solely on the prior administration; the current president has had two years to change the policies (or, as some would say, stop the madness of the Bush policies), and yet it has not done that. If anything, it has not only continued the policies of the Bush administration, but also the failed fiscal policies of the Clinton administration.

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  17. I so enjoy watching Charles act. Hope he doesn't worry too much. I think I heard him say that if you can't change it you have to let it go. Charlie let it go because you can't change it. All we can do is hope and pray that these men and women in the House, Senate and the President will come up with a compromise. Till then I pray for our country. When you pray you are giving your worries to God. Who better to give your worries to? What does another day of worrying do but give you new gray hairs. You do what you can and let it go. Was that Blog #1? lol

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  18. well Charlie it seems the "hot heads" have found a partial solution. Better than keeping a nation (USA) in anxiety and in fact the rest of the world.This whole business could have been solved much earlier but I guess some politician had to have their"show".
    I daresay this will settle your anger .
    Have a nice day and greet your"girls" with a big smile LOL

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  19. Karen, JoAnn, and Jeannie are the only two logical ones on here. Charlie, while your words are convincing to some people, I am not falling for it. The people didn't purposely elect a divided government. It just so happens that the people they elected from senatorial and congressional districts don't get along. Anyway, there needs to be some disagreements in the government or the Democrats would have their way. The democrats of today are too controlling nowadays. Take from the rich, give to the poor! Why should someone who earns their money and goes to work everyday pay a higher percentage in taxes than some schmoe laying on the couch all day that doesn't even look for a job? I thought this country was about equality. This isn't a socialist country ! Eat healthy or we'll force it upon you! Why should the government care if I eat unhealthy? (Oh, wait, they really don't. They just pretend they care about our health and tax sugary and fatty foods to get money for other things. So to all the people who really thought they cared, I hate to break it to you this way.)Next topic: Raise the debt ceiling! What, are they nuts? Do I even have to explain myself on this one? Maybe I should. Hint: If we raise the debt ceiling, we owe more money to foreign countries, especially China. We're so far in a hole that China could take us over! So in my defense, one party should not have all the power, and besides, the tea party isn't a real party. Maybe your taking your anger out on Republicans (most of which are not members of the tea party. I'm not saying Republicans are all at fault, but the Democrats certainly are at fault to some extent. Hope you take my words into consideration.

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  20. Ha! Ha! Charlie about the 'old farts'running Congress. Your point about teaching children to get along is so well taken. When I think of all the hard work that has gone into my nieces and nephew to work with others, compromise, get a long with people, and the government can't even provide a good role model. Regarding the analogy between The Tea Party and Al Quaida very interesting - had not thought of it that way but now that you mention it I do see the parallels -definitely extremist fundamentalists who have an impact, but at the same time are amorphous. Seems their agenda is to create havoc and discord instead of really improving anything. What is their real agenda? Who are they really anyway? I can never quite get a grasp on it. To me, seems the Tea Party just wants to oppose anything that Obama wants to do without really assessing what would be best for the common good of the country. I see their signs around Boston with mustaches on Obama making him look like Hitler -what kind of analogy is that? One thing to disagree with his policies but another to make totally inaccurate political and historical parallels. At first I thought of them as this 'lunatic' fringe group, but then to see the impact that they have had on the Republican party and the negative impact on the country this is concerning. We have to keep pushing back and letting our reps know, we do not want them to have the power that they have gained. I am all for compromising and believe there are many areas we could make cuts (like the trillions spent in unnecessary wars) but sometimes you have to stand firm against opposition, in this case, the Tea Party and the extreme right because they are not playing fair in the 'sandbox'.
    Anyway, keep blogging. Your thoughts and everyone else's here are interesting and much appreciated.

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  21. @RJ SO agree with your last comment. If we are going to cut expenses then cut the unnecessary wars for pete's sake. Always the right comparing the President to Hitler just goes to show the ignorance of the party of history of WWII. What race has the peace loving prez tried to extinguish off the face of the planet. Is just more of that Obama is being compared to the anti-Christ. Which is just religious propaganda, no different from Muslim extremist. OH there is the point Charlie was trying to make. Proves him right. Anyone who falls for religious propaganda are weak cowards if you ask me. And to stupid to think for themselves needs other to tell them what to think and validation from others they are someone. Please, is truly sad and insane . Just brainwashing at it's best. Go watch Scooby Doo if you need a wake up call.

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  22. Roxana!!!!! 'Anyone who falls for religious propaganda are weak cowards if you ask me. And to stupid to think for themselves needs other to tell them what to think and validation from others they are someone. Please, is truly sad and insane." Excuse me?! Talk about intolerance, hatred, bigotry, and phobia. I know you're just venting and upset, but my goodness!

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  23. @Karen
    Actually the chart to which I provided a link is not misleading at all. It clearly states what information it is providing and it is exactly what I desired to show. Obviously it is not the whole "deficit story", but it does show how the deficit has been impacted under 'new' policies from these two presidents. Although I admit that there are other valuable pieces of information regarding the deficit, I feel this is such also.

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  24. @skat35 @Jo
    I admit that when I first read Roxane's comment I was a little surprised myself. After I got dinner ready I decided to read it out loud to my husband. As I did so, I saw something that I did not see the first time. I do not know if I am interpreting Roxane's comment in the way she intended, but upon my second reading this is what I gleaned. Roxanne, you can correct me if I am wrong.

    Originally I felt she was stating that anyone who embraces religion is weak, stupid, and cowardly. Upon my second out-loud reading I feel that she was referring to not someone who is religious, but those who accept such rhetoric as Obama is the anti-Christ or the comparisons of him to Hitler.

    With that in mind, I have a better feeling regarding her statement, because I do not think those terms should be applied to President Obama either.

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  25. Okay, maybe slightly over done. Started on a rant. Sorry Jo & gals! Calming down now!

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  26. Yes Jeannie that is what i meant! That anyone who claims Obama is anti-Christ is following dumb propaganda not like you guys. Sorry for misunderstanding. Was speaking of "some tea partier extremists" not All religious folks. Mercy No! I will be more cautious in future. Sorry again guys!

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  27. NO! I am not against folks worshiping God. I used to be a Christian myself for goodness sake. Grace, forgiveness, and mercy are wonderful doctrines. How could i be against anything that promotes peace and decent human values. Am speaking of "HATE" propaganda used in the name of God. Weak because HIDES behind religions. Crimeny!

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  28. Charlie, what do you think now after hearing President Obama tonight? Do you think the House should vote on the currently proposed deal? I even heard them say on FOX News that the GOP is getting 98% of what they wanted. It definitely is not a good deal for the Democrats, but is it or is it not worth accepting to keep the U.S. from defaulting?

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  29. You may be right,Jeannie...I hope and pray that you are. I will say though, that the comparison of our POTUS to the Antichrist/Hitler did not begin with 2008. It's a little disingenious for many(not nec. you all) to be suddenly horrified at it all, when it's "your team". It's wrong either way, and it's not actually religious rhetoric, it's political. Just because someone paid $$ for a sign that says so, doesn't mean everyone on 'that side of the fence' goes along with it. I've never, ever seen a sign "in real life" that says those things, about either of the POTUSes. Only on the internet, where the most ridiculous things get all the attention. And before you know it, it's being posted all over as "look at what those evil Republicans/Democrats are doing!!"

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  30. Jo: I do not hate the tea-party "extremist"! I pity them because they seem stuck in the past with their OLD worldly views and incapable of joining the rest of us here in good ole 2010! Basically An embarrassment to MY country with everything stupid they do and say. When i was ranting earlier I was referring to all terrorist who kill in the name of God not ALL God loving folks.
    Just not happy with folks who call the President the anti-Christ much either. I have NO respect for such people who allow themselves BLINDED by such religious ideas so as to be led to turn on own leaders. Not meaning ALL religious ideas, will try to be more clear next time. any and all promotion of HATE festering etc. The SUPPOSE opposite of Religion. THAT is the problem that i don't get with extremist. Take it so extreme it turns opposite of Love. But wonder lately about that very thing: love and hate, could be very close to the same emotion. Sometimes love can turn to hate if we are not careful. Especially when we feel we have been wronged. Maybe that is what has happened to them. They pledge aligence TO strongly that anything or anyone stands in their way or (in their mind, God's way) they hate. idk

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  31. You know, Charlie, I think you should meet my husband, not because you have the same idea, but because you have both a love of politics, one that combines ...... I think that's the point!

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  32. Woops! 2011! Now i am stuck in past too. lol

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  33. Am I understanding that Washington has agreed upon the debt ceiling. The Senate will vote tomorrow. Told you Charles that this was just a lot of drama by both parties. Ha in the end I knew it would be settled. If it wasn't what a mess and neither party wanted to be responsible for that.

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  34. Sadly, Jeannie, that's the difference between politicians who will sacrifice their own agenda to avert a disaster to their country, and others who will gleefully see it go down in flames so long as they can claim a "98%" victory! I just hope ( fat chance!) that the American people will remember what happened on Aug. 2nd. 2011 and how it happened. Of course the stock market will rally because the rich 1% have won and can now buy more luxury stuff, manufactured abroad by indentured slaves or political prisoners, that will boost corporate profits. Meanwhile the REAL economy will slip into a coma as less and less Americans can afford food, shelter or clothing let alone "goods and services." Again, I am not talking "blame" I am simply asking those who made this happen to take responsibility for once and not try to shift it onto someone else. " Well, Obama could have vetoed it if he didn't like it!" Come on! Seriously!!!

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  35. Agreed! With all my respect for you, Charlie, I conclude with...foggy eyes, empty heart.

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  36. Yeah like he had much of a choice!

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  37. Seing this from a different angle I agree with you Charlie.
    I hope the American people will "remember 2ndAugust 2011", and act accordingly. I don´t think there has ever been such a polemic and nasty situation as this, in US history.A small group of "revolutionists" and obvious capitalists taking a whole nation into hostage.
    The US has lost a lot face because of this and at times are the "laughing stock"because of this Kindergarten theatre.I don´t know why people blindly trust such groups.
    I doubt also if the economy will get better. How ? if there is no revenue around for the ordinary folks.

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  38. Roxana are okay with you ... I do not live in a dream world, believe me, we're all in the same boat, my brother has not worked for two years and certainly not because he is a vagabond, I would never to discuss on your policy, also because I do not know enough but, I know the policy of my country and I will tell you that there is little to be happy when I see our politicians fight like kids deeply ashamed Roxana .... what can I say I still hope in the midst of all those crazy there is someone who believes in a policy that we UNICS for the good of our country, otherwise we are doomed .... I know it is a naive, do you want, the Italians are dreamers!

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  39. okay so 66 Republicans voted against this bill(174 voted yes), and NINETY-FIVE Dems voted each way. So, let's hear what you all have to say about the 50% of the Dems who voted no on this bill, sticking to their ideals rather than vote for a crappy bill. How are the 26 Tea Party politicians who caved/compromised still bad guys, but NINETY-FIVE Dems are patriots? I could twist it to say that the 26 compromised for the sake of the country, they wanted to save our credit rating, etc. What did HALF of the Dems think?

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  40. I say those NINETY-FIVE Democrats had not received 98% of what they wanted. I say President Obama has tried so hard to reach across the aisle that even if those NINETY-FIVE other Democrats have not sacrificed their own agenda, he has sacrificed more than he should. I say that the Republicans have taken advantage of a president who truly has tried to work in a cooperative manner. I say that those NINETY-FIVE other Democrats had a lot more to lose than the 66 Republicans who got almost everything they wanted (98%) and still could not vote YES! Sorry Charlie, I really thought I had concluded my comments.

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  41. Bravo, JoAnn! I've been wondering the same thing--how are the Tea Party folks who opposed the bill considered obstructionists, but the liberal Democrats who voted the same way aren't? Or are we back to the old argument "our revolution is okay, their revolution (3rd person) is not"--in other words, liberal Democrats can oppose it because of the impact on social welfare programs, yet Tea Party Republicans cannot oppose it because it's fiscally irresponsible?

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  42. As I say, Jeannie, I could take a break and let you do the talking for me!!! No apology necessary!! :-)

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  43. You are just venting Jeannie! Agreed, i'd think they'd quite a few Choice words in mind! Christina: you are so right, is sad when politicians behave as children. And they are the ones to make all the decisions for us. Lord help us "all"! Thanks for your input. Is good to have others viewpoints on the discussions here. Much appreciate Italians & other Europeans comments. So wonderful to have you guys. (Much thanks due to Charlie.) Missing Kerstin lately. Hope your brother finds some work. Two years, that is a long time. Neat you & your husband enjoy politics too. I should brush up quite a bit. Used to Tend avoid it. Good thing Charlie here came along to help give me a wake up (had to brush up for the blog) (although is not helping my political comments by much: okay-None!) so I'd have no choice but resort to watching Countdown and Hardball. Course: The Colbert Report & Daily Show are my faves. Better to laugh at it all so as to help keep from crying.

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  44. The problem with Jeannie and Charles is they don't want to be wrong. Its sad because even when the proof is in front of their nose they still refuse to believe it. Of course again that is liberal news media thinking as well. With this kind of thinking it will always be them against us. I believe most of the citizens in this country are fed up with this attitude. We have got to start to get along. We have to work together for the good of our country not just the parties own agenda's. How childish well if the Republicans agree then the Democrats cant. Okay so I didn't get what I wanted cry me a freaking river. We need honest people who are willing to compromise without blame and dislike. Also the President of the United States is going to compromise so much that the he is going to allow the Republicans to get their way. Ha. You forgot that the Dems voted down Boehner's bill because they didn't want to compromise either. Why is it always the Republicans fault. Come on wake up or are you just another puppet for their party. Personally, I think each party is to blame for this. I refuse to just blame the Republican party because that is so narrow-minded. Even when Karen tried to explain the situation she was either not believed or you were just too upset to admit that you are wrong. This is what you call double-standard. It also is a bunch of crap. Eventually people are going to open their eyes and be able to see beyond the liberal news media and think for themselves. In the meantime the Tea Party will continue to represent the small folks in this country. Charles come on you seem like you are so much smarter than to blame one party for all that is wrong with this country. Read what Karen had to say or Joann. You know they can also be right too. Also Jeannie you are just as brainwashed by the liberal media as the rest. 98% of what the Republicans wanted please. Again lets make the Republicans look like the bad guys. Has everyone forgotten that there is an election coming up. Not all people are to thrilled with President Obama. He better do something to make it better. So lets blame the Republicans for everything that goes wrong because it makes him look better. Oh so sad no one can see beyond today. I can guarantee you before election time President Obama is going to do something so spectacular that everyone will want to vote for him again. Right now his ratings are the worse than it has been even with the death of Osama bin Laden. So again The Dems are going to do whatever it takes to get back that control. Sad but try and again instead of working for the best of the people is our country, they can waste their time and ours blaming each other.

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  45. I am truly sorry Charlie if I implied that you were not smart in my last blog. Sometimes I get so carried away I forget what I say. Then as I am driving down the road a few minutes ago I thought omg I was not very nice and may have implied that Charlie was stupid. Jeez what a big mistake. Please forgive me I meant no harm. Crap I am just gonna have to keep praying for forgiveness.

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  46. All righty then! Well i did see some double standard but it was not coming from Jeanie or Charlie's side. "Boo woo because we didn't get our way"! And seems as maybe stepped on some toes with my propaganda comment, kinda leads me to thinking there may be some president "is" possibly the anti-christ supporters on this blog. But so does my best friend which is why makes it hard. But such is life and i need to deal. Did not mean to upset anyone, just rightly don't understand. I heard tell that when the anti-christ does come, no one is suppose to know is him. So how could anyone know is Pres Obama? But doesn't make me right. What do i know of possible Armageddon? I for one do enjoy reading as well as learning Karen and Jo's comments. Thinking we should agree to disagree and not to get ugly or angry with each other. We are all entitled to our own opinions and agendas. The tea party is only a minority anyway as Karen stated. Is not the entire Republican party. Don;t have a beef with the Republican party unless they keep dragging religion into it. Le's enjoy our debate and not categorize ourselves into sides. There will be other blogs non political. Respect you guys are Americans just like us. Right to an opinion is in our natures.

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  47. PS. And I sure hope he does something spectacular so people will vote for him again.

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  48. Well first of all, Diane, I want to give you a very sincere thank-you for grouping me with Charlie. I am sincerely and greatly honored. Secondly, I have a simple question for you. When did Fox News go liberal? I must have missed it. Was it when Murdoch found himself in the News of the World scandal? I was also surprised to learn Mike Huckabee has converted to liberalism. You see, when I was watching Fox News' Mike Huckabee show on Sunday night, I was under the impression that I was watching conservative programming. I normally watch NBC Nightly News w/Brian Williams. I love him almost (not quite) as much as Charlie. Although MSNBC has some liberal programming, I think Nightly News is pretty neutral—no opinion shows there. I do, however, find myself watching Fox News’ shows because I like to hear both sides of current issues. When I was raising my children, I required them to tell me the opposing view on any issue for which they took a stand. Here is actually a funny story. In 2008 during the presidential election campaign, my 15 year-old son took the position that he supported Obama. At the time, I was pretty certain he was doing so for the shock factor. At lunchtime, he was surrounded by kids who came from very strong conservative families. He loved getting them riled up. Knowing this I asked him to explain to me why he supported Obama. He could not do it. I told him that I expected him to look at both sides and come back to me. Well, he did so and guess what? He did not support Obama any longer. When he registered to vote a few months ago, he registered as a Republican. Am I proud of him? You bet ya! Why? Because he can think for himself. He does not feel any pressure whatsoever to see things my way. He also realizes that he does not have to be completely Republican or Democrat. There are issues he supports on both sides, but he mostly aligns with Republicans.

    Well, back to that liberal programming I was watching this past Sunday. It was Mike Huckabee who said that the Republicans had received 98% of what they had wanted (Yes, that is where I FIRST heard that figure although it has been repeated by several different news correspondents). After making that comment, Mike giddily asked why the Republicans don’t just vote for the bill and declare victory. He continued discussing the issue in an elated state. I tried to find the link for you, but unfortunately Fox News only posts small clips of their shows and on this particular episode, they chose to show the clip of the Gatlin Brothers’ performance. Maybe they did not want the clip of the giddy Mike to be readily accessible. If it were, then there would be evidence to the contrary when Republicans try to convince us that their win was not really all that sweet.

    Since Charlie and I are so much alike, I also wanted to share a quote with you.
    “The GOP's biggest concession in the debt ceiling debate? It took place within the government. That must have been tough for them.”—
    Stephen Colbert

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  49. @Diane: Thanks! It's nice to know that I'm not the only person who is noticing that Charlie (and, to a lesser extent, Jeannie) seem to be ignoring/avoiding the questions I'm asking on these blogs. I'm beginning to wonder if it's because they really don't have an answer to all of the hypocrisy that is going on in Washington, and it's easier to blame the Republicans (especially the Tea Party movement) than it is to acknowledge the fact that liberal Democrats are changing their votes like some people change their underwear.

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  50. Boy I got on such a tangent that I meant to say sad but true and people in our country.

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  51. I agree with Diane and Karen on certain issues/comments being ignored by Charles and other liberals on this blog.

    Jeannie, I am not sure that Diane meant that as a compliment but its nice to see you have a sense of humor. Being grouped with someone who will not debate because they do not want to admit they are wrong or who will try to avoid a question or particular subject is not something I would care for. I am not here to be "liked."

    Example:

    On the blog "Black and White or Both", where I stated Christmas is a christian holiday and the federal government closes down (how that conflicts with the theory that we are not a christian nation). That was completely ignored by the doubters, nonbelievers and liberals who blog on this site. It amazed me - not even a "you are right" with the exception of Diane. By the way, thank you, Diane.

    I can only come to the conclusion that when some people find themselves without an answer to support their view on a subject, any subject - not just religion - they just turn their heads and go on to the next blog. Not a whole lot of integrity in that.

    P.S. Don't misunderstand, Jeannie, I think your pretty cool and have learned a lot from reading your blogs.

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  52. @Jeannie..then we are similar, because I watch Good Morning America, and check the stories on both Hannity's message board(diverse political community) and on Huffington Post. I do strongly disagree though, that MSNBC has "some" liberal programming! You know how Charlie referred to Fox as "Fix News"(aka Faux News, Fox Noise)? We call that channel "Marxist Socialist News by Communists". Chris Matthews alone makes it an uber-lib mouthpiece, to say nothing of Rachel Maddow. I've seen clips of Matthews being "giddy"(leg tingly) more times than I've ever wanted.
    I did google "who said the Republicans got 98% of what they wanted?" because it sure isn't true from what I'm reading! And the google result is an interview with John Boehner, who said "*I* got 98% of everything *I* wanted". It's been misquoted all over the media outlets. Considering that almost all Republican websites are furious with Boehner right now, I'm really happy for him that he got what *he* wanted.(sarcasm off).
    I do love reading your replies here, because you explain your points AND you come back and answer questions that are directed toward you. We're all more alike than we are different.

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  53. @Roxana It says in Scripture: "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE"(Mark 13:22 capitals mine). Christians WILL recognize the Antichrist, if not at the very beginning, they'll catch on soon enough when they are commanded to denounce Christ or suffer. If I am around at the time, I will be suffering...but only temporarily ;). There will be many who take "the mark of the Beast" rather than suffer, which will separate the wheat from the chaff.
    As for the AC himself, no it is not Obama. The AC will come out of Eastern Europe(probably one of the former Soviet bloc nations..one of the 'stans), and be a small politician who wows the world with his promises, his rhetoric, his big ideas. It's thought that he will probably be a UN Ambassador. There will be some crisis or conflict, and he will be the 'big hero'. The world will think he's just amazing, and want him to "lead us all"..which will lead to the one-world government that is already in the hopper. The world will be the best it's ever been for 3 yrs, then the SHTF. His true colors will come out, and he'll rule with terror and intimidation, so that even his minions are terrified and do his bidding to save their own lives.
    There have been false antichrists since day one, but there will be more and more as the time nears. Hitler was probably the most obvious one...wowing the masses with his charisma, his speeches, his ability to harness the anger against a scapegoat, etc. Then it got to be too late.
    The reason people saw "some concerns" about the AC with Obama was that same charisma and fancy speeches with promises of hope and change, and it's not fair, and I have a plan to make it better so come join the movement. I think the strangest part was when Obama was campaigning in Germany during the primaries...with gigantic posters of his face, and swooning crowds. We heard people around the world telling us that we HAD to vote for him, because he was the only hope to save our planet!!! It was eerie, but it died down once the novelty wore off. But I'll admit, it gave me chills at the time, to see how easily people could be whipped up into a frenzy over a speech and some big promises.

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  54. I really meant to comment on another subject with my last post but I got distracted.

    Jeannie, I am from Nevada, too. The reason Harry Reid was re-elected was because his opponent was "out there." Don't you remember how Sharron Angle started out strong but everytime she spoke the more bizarre she sounded? That is why Senator Reid won.

    With respect to the debt ceiling. I am an eternal optimist. I never seriously felt the debt ceiling would not be raised. It was mainly a farce that put Americans through a lot of stress - one side trying to make the other look bad.

    As far as President Obama. He gets some of my sympathy. If he did not compromise, he would be called uncooperative. By compromising he is called weak. No way for him to win there. He is a great campaigner, though - very eloquent speaker and he can get your hopes up. Right after he won the election one of his speeches actually gave me a lump in my throat and I did not even vote for him!

    People voted for him to fix the economy but he put a tremendous amount of effort into healthcare reform which most Americans did not want. Lets not even talk about the dollars spent on bailouts. Almost three years later, he is still blaming Bush.

    When is he going to actually do something that will HELP the economy? Probably not until just before the 2012 election. Then he will perform a miracle. Oops, used the word miracle here - cannot do that on this site as it may be interpreted as religious - God forbid! Oops, used the name God! My bad!

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  55. Yes, Lily. That is why Senator Reid won, but I think all of Sharon Angle’s statements to which you referred showed exactly how extreme she is. I believe that although the people on one hand liked all the promises and the rhetoric that the Tea Party was offering, they on the other were able to recognize that they could not risk the extremes that were evident by the outlandish statements of Sharon Angle.

    I also believe that great orators are able to persuade people on both sides. It is not just Obama who has this gift and certainly the left does not hold a monopoly on people who have been swayed by such. Let’s see, the right has Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, Bill O’Reilly, et al, who seem to have a great hold and appeal over their listeners. Is it possible that an anti-Christ could intentionally deceive many by pretending to actually serve Christ? I, personally, feel that this is very feasible. It is easy to follow one that seems to walk the walk but whom we may be unaware has only his/her self-interest at heart.

    For the record, as I stated in a previous comment, I am not opposed to people using the values they gain from their religion in deciding political matters. After all, our political persuasion and our chosen religion are both part of our value system. I believe anyone who expects others to disregard those values is being unrealistic. I do have a problem, however, when religion extends to politics in general. For instance, it goes contrary to my personal value system to believe that one has to be Republican and Christian to be of value to the political process or for that matter to be of value in any way. I also find it difficult to accept that from a political standpoint many want to enforce that we, as a nation, should worship God. It seems to infringe upon that free will that Republicans insist is their right when it is used to their benefit—you know like we should not be forced to provide for the needy. It seems to me that many want free will when applied to their freedom but want to withhold it if it does not fit their agenda. It just seems contradictory.

    This will probably be my last comment on this topic. I can’t promise that it will, but my life does seem to be asking for attention to other matters. I look forward to more blogs Charlie. I know you probably can’t continue at last weeks rate, but I hope there is not too long of a drought. On the other hand, if you are busy and happy then that is more important.

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  56. Thanks for commenting back Jo! Understanding better. The folks i had been listening to were saying it was Obama then they are unsure. Must admit is a very interesting subject. Will be interesting to see how things in the future play out. If we are still here as you stated. Sorry for accusing you. I admire you, can always count on you to be my main debater! :)! What would Tom be without Jerry? Sorry, i have a 5 yr old, watch many cartoons And i hear what you guys are saying about Christmas a national holiday. Why are all presidents professing Christians? Idk why! Is it written in job description? Okay bad joke! Traditional i reckon like Thanksgiving. And Jeannie does has a big & good since of humor. Her blog subscriber here. Hey put us here in The House all together we would go to town and round and round huh ladies?

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  57. Charlie where are you??? Seems as though maybe he doesn't have anything to say or maybe Jeannie is going to do it for him. Its all good. I don't dislike anyone for having a different view than myself but then back up what you say. Just as Joann backed up what she said with Jeannie. Joann did her homework and did not get bogged down by the liberal media crap. When you are able to realize that the liberal media is just saying what the people want to hear than you realize how one-sided they are. Also I think people are pissed at Fox News because this new station refuses to listen to the liberals and that pisses them off. When you get pissed at someone you will do what it takes to discredit them. That is what is going on here. Such as the Tea Party. Liberal news blew that situations out of proportion because they are threatened by the fact that the people of this country may actually be listening to them. Now we can't have that going on because we need the liberals to tell us how to think and feel. Please!!! Sorry that's not me. My thinking and beliefs comes from the bible. When I look at the big pic the Dems just don't have the same ideals and morals I have. I personally think that all of theses politicians are ruining our good country. We the people need to band together and take our country back from the greedy and crooked politicians. If we don't we soon won't have a country left. Even China has down graded our credit. This is not a good sign.

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  58. For some reason when Charlie approved that last group of comments, they did not all show up together. Therefore, I saw Lily’s comment about being from Nevada before I saw the one about her question not being answered regarding Christmas.

    When I say that this nation is not a Christian nation, I am doing so from the same perspective that Karen comes from, which is that there is nothing in the Constitution stating that we are such. Although the majority of U.S. citizens may be Christian, we believe in the separation of church and state. I have heard different interpretations of this throughout the years, but I believe it means that each citizen has the right to worship how he/she chooses and that it is not to be dictated by the government. Karen you can teach us more about this. In fact, I will just turn the question over to Karen. I am sure she can do a much better job answering it than I can, but I will say that in my opinion because the majority of people were Christian, Christmas was declared a national holiday. It has become not only a religious holiday, but a traditional holiday as well where many people celebrate from a purely secular point of view. This, along with the economic implications attached thereto, would make it very difficult to change.

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  59. And yes, Lily, I am sure it was not meant as a compliment, but I do have a sense of humor and I choose to take it as a compliment. I only hope Charlie feels it would be a compliment to be grouped with me.

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  60. Lets try to explain again Jeannie. Christmas- Christ is in Christmas. So if you celebrate Christmas than chances are likely you are Christian or in the past you were a Christian. Now if you want to celebrate X-mas than that is non secular. You try to change words and ideas to fit what you think is right. But Christmas is Christmas- A Christian holiday. Also I wasn't a complimenting you and I believe Lilly answered that very well for me. Enough said.

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  61. Maybe there is just no way around it, that this is a Christian nation? We shall see i guess. As much as i don't want it to be or as Karen stated: was not suppose to be. I feel (which i can't take credit for because i heard it on you tube) that the founding fathers tried to keep religion out of government and it has somehow crept in through a side door, Ironically. I believe (and yes i am into conspiracy theory's) for some reason or another the government allowed this or perhaps just looked the other way to some extent. Call me crazy but seems they could have put a stop to it. And if this is how it plays out for America (and i hope not). Well the majorities will have spoken. Not Indiana Jones and can't stop a steaming locomotive. But going to hang on to the side until i have no choice but to jump off. It doesn't seem right as for Foundation of America. But i try to believe in destiny and she shall reveal herself. Then: lead, follow or get the hell out of the way = well said quote. Sounds good anyway.

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  62. Oh brother again. @Diane OMG! I don't think speaking to Jeannie as though she is a child is the right thing to do. Considering she is a extremely intelligent college grad and a mathematician. You refreshed a memory of a friend of mine having the audacity to tell me since i now converted to agnosticism, i am no longer allowed to celebrate Christmas. Well before i could think of a reply. I told her i can celebrate any damn holiday i choose and there is nothing she can do about it. Hardy har har! Perhaps childish thing to say but made me feel better. In this case, Jeannie is a Christian same as you. Sad fact that sometimes people can turn on their own. OH Will the irony just ever cease? I needs me a beer or a trip to Margarita-ville! To bad is a weeknight. You know, all these years never realized that Christ was in the word Christmas. Thanks for pointing that out. Even though i (and Jeannie currently) used to attend church regularly for oh about 13 years straight but that does not seem to qualify me to celebrate Christmas anymore i reckon. Can just feel the love! Did i mention i have been baptized? But what does all that matter anymore i am a heathen nowadays? Thanks for the reminder, i need a kick now and then to help me stay the cause.

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  63. WOW--I "tuned in" to this blog rather late-I am bedazzled by the intelligent,thoughtful, and discerning comments in response to Charlie's blog. If only everyone was as well informed as all of you seem to be, our country would probably not be in the situation it is in now. As I've said before,Charlie always makes us think. Keep it up all of you!

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  64. My kids always tell me I'm not funny. I tell them that is because you assume I am trying to entertain you. I'm not. This is about entertaining me and I think I'm funny, therefore I am funny. Well, I choose to take it as a compliment to be grouped with Charlie. Therefore, it is a compliment. If it makes Diane feel better to consider it a criticism then that is what she should consider it to be. But, I must add, I really do hope it makes her feel better. I mean that sincerely, because if it truly makes someone feel better, I will be happy to be their punching bag. I admit that I was sarcastic in my comment which referred to Mike Huckabee, but other than that, I was not rude in the slightest. I only offered a different way of looking at things. I wonder, Diane, why you didn't direct your comments regarding Christmas to Karen. I believe she was the one who first brought up that this was not a Christian nation as well as explaining better than I why Christmas being a national holiday is not sufficient proof to justify making it such. I will no longer continue this conversation because to tell you the truth, it brings a very bad feeling into my heart. A feeling that I choose to begin to reject as of now.

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  65. After I wrote the above comment, I did some things around the house and then I went to bed. As I lay there, I was pondering how we learn about each other’s beliefs and then we think that we know one another. We decide right then and there if a person is right or wrong, good or bad. The truth of the matter, though, is that none of us know each other. When I say none of us, I am not talking just about those on this blog, but of all human kind. We do not know what has brought each one to their beliefs or what their individual journey has been. I thought about how none of you know me. You do not know what pains I have suffered nor what burdens I have borne. You do not know why I believe the way I do, but then it occurred to me that the reverse is also true. I do not know what has brought each of you to your place in life. I do not know why each of you feels so strongly about your position. Although I cannot, will not, apologize for my beliefs nor the positions I hold, I do apologize for any hurt feelings I may have caused any of you due to my lack of understanding of your life’s journey. Unfortunately, that is all I have to offer.

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  66. @Lily and Jeannie: My comment about Christmas being a federal holiday appeared on the "Black and White or Both" blog post, so I'm not going to repeat it here.

    Regarding Charlie not being a more active participant (and not answering all of our questions): First, I want to thank Charlie for being as active in these blogs as he has been. For those of you who are relatively new to participating in Charlie's blogs, he usually doesn't comment this month--so I do appreciate it that he has taken the time to join in the conversation. Plus, we have asked him a lot of questions; we should give him time to think about how he wants to answer them so we don't go after him for his response. He said in the last iBlog that his family was coming home; let him spend some time with his family before we start badgering him too much.

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  67. I meant to say that Charlie doesn't comment this MUCH (instead of this month--obviously that's not the case, since he did post a comment on Tuesday). I really shouldn't try typing comments at 6 a.m.

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  68. Diane, I really don't think at this point that "celebrating Christmas" has anything to do with believing in Jesus as the Christ...sad as that may sound. It has been completely hijacked by secularism(and I suspect Jeannie would agree with us on that point). It makes logical sense to *us* that Christ means "The long awaited Messiah" and "mas(s)means birth", therefore Christmas is the celebration of the Birth of the Messiah. Doesn't help that people think that Christ is Jesus' name, not his 'title', and they're just celebrating the birthday of Jesus, that wonderful teacher.
    It defies logic for me too, that people would celebrate C-mas yet complain about mentioning Jesus, or a creche, or saying Merry Christmas. I envy the other faiths whose holidays are kept sacred. Never have heard anyone say "Hannukah is fun with 8 days of gifts, so I want to celebrate it but can we leave that offensive oil miracle out of it?" or "Ramaddan sounds nice, a great way to search yourself and work on improving...but don't bring up that Allah or Mohammed guy, but c'mon people you know it's a myth".

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  69. Wow, I did not think it would come to this.

    JoAnn - you are right and you are wrong. When Christmas is celebrated in this country, Jesus is who they are recognizing. No one (or very few like yourself maybe) is even thinking about what happened 700 or so years before Jesus' birth. That is just the reality of it.

    Yes, Christmas has become commercialized. People have allowed this to happen but that does not change the meaning of the holiday in this country.

    And actually, I think you have it backwards on who is doing the complaining out there about saying "Merry Christmas" or mentioning Jesus. Its not the christians, its the nonchristians -the jews, atheists, etc. They all want "equal time" so to speak. As far as Hannukah is concerned, if it were not for Christmas, most people would probably not even know what Hannukah is. Christmas has brought all of the attention to the month of December. And that goes for Kwanzaa, too whatever that is). There are maybe 5 people in the whole country who celebrate Kwanzaa. O.K. I'm over exaggerating but you get my point. And there is no need to envy someone else's holiday if you embrace your own and YOU keep it holy for yourself and your family.

    And I never complained Charles does not personally reply to everyone's questions. Frankly, I do not expect him to - I'm sure he has a life that keeps him busy. I said he seems to avoid some tough questions. He has his favorite subjects and religion is certainly not one of them. He appears to take the easier road. I do not mean to be disrespectful, but I would be intimidated, too, if I got my spirituality off the sci-fi channel. Gee, I hope Charles has a sense of humor.

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  70. I am sorry Jeannie if I hurt your feelings. I get so carried away sometimes. You are right about people's circumstances. Let me tell you. My brother's son passed away last year from a car accident. He was 22 years old. My brother has been unemployed, divorced and lost his house last week. I do everything possible I can to help him. How do you help someone who has a broken heart? One day he asked me if he could go to church with me, that was 6 mos. ago. Now he tells me his favorite day of the week is Sunday. God is helping my brother heal and to function every day. So when people have an issues with religion it hit too close to home. I don't know how he would have survived without faith. My co-worker is quitting so I have to re-train some one new. I was suppose to re-start nursing school in the fall but with my brother circumstances and the intense studying that it takes to pass these courses, I chose not to return. I can't even go back to the hospital because all I can see is my nephew's face and feel all that sadness again. So if I have offended anyone including Karen or Charles I am truly sorry for that. I am doing the best I can and promise to try a little harder to watch my words so they won't become so cruel.

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  71. So here is the issue-my understanding was that the Dems compromised because they feared that if they did not the US would default on loans and cause another recession in the US and worldwide creating a severe economic crisis. So today the stock market in the US plunged 513 points biggest drop since Oct. 2008 and all the markets in the world came tumbling down too! We will have to see what happens tomorrow- was this just a blip or a correction as finance folks call it, or is it a start of another global recession. Guess I am still angry and disappointed that the Dems were being held 'hostage' by the right/republicans/tea party,and felt they had to compromise more than most of them wanted to, but they did it supposedly for financial stability and the greater good. Paul Krugman, wrote a commentary the other day that he would not have voted for the Republican package just for financial stability because it was not going to help the economy anymore. He seem to predict that even with a compromise what happened to day was going to happen as we need to be looking at other measures to move the economy forward (raising revenue and spending on job creation, etc)- all not in the bill that passed.

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  73. Christmas has been hijacked by commercialism just like the Easter Bunny! To what myth are you referring? didn't understand that final line Jo. Are you being sarcastic about not be able to mention Allah? But i do agree some folks celebrate Christmas regardless of meaning or saying Merry Christmas. You don't have to buy presents to celebrate either.
    @nanabev Sweet comment there. Thx! Agree with Karen: Charlie has been quite talkative on these blogs (politics lights his fire) which has been cool! Have to admit has been a hairy blog. This subject matter, hard hitting.

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  74. Seeing my mum in England for a week, so bit hard to blog or answer questions. Boy, I wish I could just do this in a large room with you all. I have just too much to say to some of you. Respect your opinions and all, but you are just mistaken on a lot of stuff. Dipping into the grab bag....if Christmas is about Christ because his name is there, why not spend Wednesday worshipping Wotan, or Thursday worshipping Thor?

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  76. O.K. So I lied! I decided to make another comment.

    Last night I noticed Charlie had made another comment. When I came on to look at it, I reread a couple of other comments. Something stuck out to me that apparently I had missed before. I had to address it because it is personal. It deals with Lily’s August 3 comment made at 11:31. In the first paragraph after assuring me that I was not given a compliment, she said, “I am not on here to be ‘liked’.” I guess I am slow, because the first time I read this I did not quite get it. ‘She’ was not on here to be liked. Then it came to me. Her implication was that I WAS on here to be liked. I found that very interesting because I really have not been feeling too much love on this discussion. Now remember I’m a little slow, so it took a minute for me to process this. It finally dawned on me that she was referring to being liked by Charlie. Really! Do my thoughts in anyway sound like they are not my own? I guess it is time to share another experience.

    In some of my previous comments I have stated that my family went through some very difficult challenges because of treatment by others due to my political persuasion. You may think, “Well how hard could it have been considering it was only about politics?” I can only say that it was VERY difficult. I cannot explain why. I wish I could, but there are reasons that I cannot tell you what happened. The irony is that if I did tell you, you would understand why I feel I should not tell you—catch 22, I suppose. It had been so heartbreaking to me that I went into a deep depression. Last fall I finally came to a point where the only thing I could do was physically go to school (I was finishing up my degree), come home, and fall on my bed. I could barely do homework. I did not function around my house. I did not interact with anyone. One thing I did do was watch “The Nanny”. I LOVED it. It made me laugh. It was my one solace, an escape from the world.

    Well, since I was not doing much of anything else, I began surfing the Internet. I began looking around to see what some of the actors from ‘The Nanny’ were currently doing. I stumbled upon Charles’ blog and began reading. I did not read many of the comments, but I did read several of his posts. I saw a kindhearted person who really seemed to care about his fellowmen. I found that his political philosophy was just like mine. I was intrigued and that is why I decided to follow him. It certainly was not because I was star struck, although I am a fan that loves to see him act and was thrilled to see him in ‘My Fair Lady’. I began to follow him on Facebook, but it was his blog that really captured my attention. Because of his philosophies, I felt like it might be a place for me to come to find some likeminded people. It had been a long time since I had had an opportunity to truly be myself wherein my ideas were concerned. Let me assure you that one is not popular with her peers when she is a Christian Democrat. No, I was not pushing my views on other people, so my lack of acceptance was not due to being too outspoken. I did, however, have my limits.
    (cont.)

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  77. I was more than willing to listen to the political opinions of my peers without debate, but what I was not willing to do was listen to them call another person evil because of his political persuasion or party. Republicans are not righteous and Democrats evil! Sadly, most of my peers could not accept that reality! Interestingly, Christians often feel that they are discriminated against. I am certain that sometimes this is true. There are those who just do not like Christians and never will no matter what Christians do. However, I think often what Christians do not realize is that they discriminate against non-Christians. Think about it! It is true! That is why some have a problem with Christians. It is not because they have a disdain for religion. It is because of the way religious people often choose to display their beliefs. Again, I am not saying that this is why all those who do not like Christians have formed such an opinion. It obviously is not! I am just saying that this could probably be true in many cases. Perhaps sometimes it would do us good to listen to what could be constructive criticism without assuming that it is coming from a disdain for religion.

    Is this about Charlie liking me? Hardly! Do I respect Charlie? Yes, but I am not about to put my neck on the line for someone who probably will not even remember my name next week—perhaps not even tomorrow. Above anything else, I am realistic!

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  78. @Lily and Roxana~I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't talking about Christians complaining...I was talking about the rest of the people who celebrate "Christmas" even though they don't believe He's the Messiah, or that the Bible story is true! And now we've come to a place where having a Nativity scene on public grounds is "offensive", so they put up a Santa dirigible next to a Menorah! Somehow it's ok to put up a symbol of the Biblical Miracle of the Hannukah Story, but not the Biblical Miracle of the Nativity? And I'm not blaming the Jews..please don't think that! I love the Hannukah story, and think the Menorah belongs there. I just don't get why one Bible story is "ok" and the other isn't?
    And that's what I meant about the "myth of Allah" Roxy. The secular world WANTS to be a part of Christmas, so they join in and complain about the religious aspect. Yet, they would NEVER think of celebrating Passover or Ramadan in a 'secular' way, and insist that the religious part was "offensive" or a fable.
    Did I just make that clear as mud? ;o) And perhaps Christmas SHOULDN'T be a federal holiday. It should be kept sacred like the Jewish and Muslim days are. And people who don't want to celebrate the Messiah's birth, can celebrate Yule instead(I know several people who do that, and I admire them for it). But it may be too late for that..we've had centuries of family traditions, etc, built around the celebration of Christmas, and you can't force people to give that up. But at least accept that YOU'RE the one CHOOSING to celebrate a holiday that you don't really believe and don't whine that you're offended by the Bible stories.

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  79. Okay, Charlie, since you opened the door...why stop at days of the week? Why not ask why we don’t spend March worshipping Mars (god of war)? (Apparently we don't in the United States, because no wars have been started in March; most started in April.) Sometimes, I think the Quakers had it right in referring to the days as 1st day, 2nd day, etc. (and months as 1st month, 2nd month, etc.) in their records instead of the common names used.

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  80. Perhaps is called Christmas as in Chris Kringle? Bad joke! That would be neat if we could debate in a big room or somehow all Skype together at the same time. But we'd probably all have so much to say that no one person would be able to get a word in edgewise. One giant argument wouldn't help accomplish much. We'd have to all take turns with the microphone. Have a nice time with mum! Would like to take a break from this heat. It is so hot that i went in the mall to school shop and my tire had some dry rot or cracks in it and the hot asphalt cracked a hole in my tire and flattened it. Pretty wild. @RJ Enjoyed your comment as usual!

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  81. Luv ya Charles so I am choosing to stay out of this blog for today.

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  82. Some folks ideas toward Christmas = Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Men! What could be so WRONG with that? That in its self is a GOOD reason to celebrate. Okay enough Blog Hogging from me.

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  83. Ok I'm thought about what everyone said and it's all good. Have a great dsy

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  84. I came home late last night and checked for any new discussions. I did not expect that I would be part of the discussion.

    Jeannie, I apologize profusely for apparently having offended you. I immediately went back to my August 3rd post to find out what I said exactly. (It has been over 24 hours since that post and my memory fails me). You are half right. However, if you go to Diane's August 2nd post, you will see where my response came from. Diane said you and Charles do not like to be wrong when you have the facts in front of you and she used the words "them against us." Now, I am not blaming Diane for anything. Nothing was her fault. It was MY interpretation of what she said that caused the problem. I was making it clear in a general way that when I comment, it will not be so I am just in agreement with someone, etc. I did not mean to single you out. The wording and timing were not the best.

    Also, you are very intelligent. But are you implying I feel you are "star struck" or unrealistic. No way. It never crossed my mind.

    Also, Christmas is a sacred holiday for those of us who keep it that way.

    I am very glad you found Charles' site to vent and that has helped you. Charles seems like a descent guy. A charitable individual, family man and a fine actor. I am here because after looking at different sites, this one offered freedom of expression and posting without any profanity or meanness from its bloggers.

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  85. I just got the character limit deal but I have to finish this or it will haunt me.

    Jeannie, your last post sounded like you were more than a little upset. You sounded downright angry. It really saddens me that I apparently caused that. In the future I will choose my words more carefully. I only wish you well, Jeannie.

    I noticed this morning Charles posted a new blog subject. Good! I hope we can just move on. This one has become somewhat depressing.

    P.S. Diane, you were very smart to stay out of this one.

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  86. Maybe this is not my place to add but, @jeannie i really do think Charlie will remember your name for more than a week. Seems he does a pretty job at remembering us when we go to his shows. Great blog everyone!

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  87. @Lily Maybe i got my spirituality from the syfy channel, paganism, philosophy, the internet, looking up at the stars or the movie avatar. Wherever? Not speaking for Charlie here, speaking for me. However, i have reason to believe from reading some of his blogs comments that he may agree somewhat on the matter. Call me egotistical but i know i am not the least bit intimidated by you all's beliefs and ideas. If Most Christians would practice as they preach then perhaps i might fell some differently on the matter.

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  88. @Lily
    Actually, Lily, I was not angry at any point in the conversation. I only felt that I wanted to correct any misconception of my motive behind my comments. There was a point when I felt unfairly beaten down, but angry, no! I guess you can say that I have just had to learn to stand up for myself.

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  89. I just now came back to this page today and saw Skat35 and Jeannie's replies.

    Skat35. Of course Charles remembers you when you go to his shows. My impression is he is very gracious indeed. And you are very lucky that you can go. I wish I could but he is always too far away for me to travel. If he ever comes to or near Nevada to perform, I will be there.

    Also Skat35, it was Charles I was referring to when I made the comment about the SyFi Channel in relation to his comment about "stardust" or "pixie dust" (or whatever) being the closest he has ever come to religion. He put the subject on the table by bringing up the shooter in Norway as being christian" and that got the ball rolling.

    Whatever the case may be with Charles' spirituality, though, it does not diminish the amount of respect I have for him or how much I like him. (And that is a whole lot!)

    And if you look back, I followed up my post about the SyFy Channel (and him being intimidated by religion) with the comment that I hope he has a sense of humor; which I believe he does.

    And, Jeannie. So glad you commented. I am glad you were not upset. It just appeared that way. Makes me feel a whole lot better.

    The problem with this blogging thing is that we cannot see one another's faces, hear tone of voice, etc. That is a real help in a conversation.

    I'm glad we are at peace. Take care, everyone.

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  90. @Lily: Okay then! And I hope you get to go to a show soon! Have only been to one but hope to go to more in the future. Had a wonderful time at My Fair Lady and the hanging out with some the other fans. Boston was a wonderful city, loved it lots! Want to go again and take the rest of my family. Picking is alright, pretty sure he can handle it. Maybe i am taking some stuff to personally. Thanks for replying. Glad to have you here! Peace!

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